I just tried to get into my own account and FB wasn't working at all. Just a blank screen. I don't think it's the link you gave, MAB. Something's up with FB. I'll try again later.   🙂

Posted by: Gavin

She said she would get me one of her cards, then headed off and never came back. I think she must have thought I was just a creepy dude that was best avoided, although it's not like we hadn't met before. I need to work on looking less creepy.

Jeez Gav! Did you buy her a drink first? 

Found a bug. I know Gavin has responded to John's quip because I received an email saying he had, but I don't see it here when I click through. I know it says something like "that would have been more creepy..." because that's what the email says, but the actual post is unavailable. Weird.

Posted by: John Evans

Posted by: Gavin

She said she would get me one of her cards, then headed off and never came back. I think she must have thought I was just a creepy dude that was best avoided, although it's not like we hadn't met before. I need to work on looking less creepy.

Jeez Gav! Did you buy her a drink first? 

I figured that would have been even creepier, John 🙂 I might have come across as slightly less creepy if my wife hadn't been at the other side of the bar talking to some friends who had just come in.

I posted this when I was logged in as an admin, deleted it, and now posted it again as Gavin, so people who are subscribed will get two emails. Apologies. The perils of trying to take part in the forum at the same time as working on the site!

Very interesting thread and some great stories of how some of you got to where you are today. We (meaning Evans and Stokes) need to be more engaging on social media, but to Jen's point it is a bit difficult to be motivated to do it every day. Also you have to be very careful about what you post. Most of our ES music is Christian themed so we need to keep that in mind with every post or comment we make on social media.

The reality of making and sharing music to me is that writing the song is actually the easy part. Yes some songs are written quickly and some are not. But even the songs that take a long time to write don't seem to be a chore in that it's fun, it's what you want to do, it's rewarding when its complete, etc. Since we do everything in ES, when a song is complete we have to mix, master, design cover art, sometimes make a video, publish, promote, promote, promote, promote, promote........... My Lord the amount of work to be done after the song or album is complete is a lot. It's the promoting, engaging with people on social media regularly, offering stuff from time to time, sharing similar content, etc. where we fall short. I don't think it's because we can't do it or don't know how to, it's just more of a daily chore. I have a full time and very demanding job and I travel for work quite a bit. I'm also married with three children. My spare time is limited so I like to spend it making the music. Does that make sense?

At the end of the day, for me it's about creating something unique, sharing it with as many people as possible, and also leaving something behind that will stand the test of time. If we make some money doing it, then that's great. But if we don't, that won't stop me.

I've bee playing guitar for 30 years. For 27 of those years I never wrote or recorded anything. Three years ago I downloaded Audacity for free and bought a $30 usb cable to plug my guitar into my PC. I composed a few songs and then joined the 101 forum. Pretty quickly Jenny and I connected. We seem to be like minded. We share the same warped sense of humor and musical tastes (which are very wide ranging. Just because our music is Rock and Metal...trust me what I listen to regularly is all over the place). The rest is history I guess. Jen and I continue work on our third album and I couldn't be happier with the progress.

I would like to make a country record at some point but I don't think Jen will go for it ?  Maybe y'all can coax her into doing it. ? 

Whoa brutha! Where'd THAT come from?!!! A country record? lol

Not saying no, just whoaaaaaa! Huh?! (and a little WTF?).

Posted by: Jenny Stokes

Whoa brutha! Where'd THAT come from?!!! A country record? lol

Not saying no, just whoaaaaaa! Huh?! (and a little WTF?).

Well I was listening to Copperhead Road today and I guess I got ta thinkin. 

I do love that country/rock tune.

Hmm.. I guess I should read this article ?  The first sentence in it is "Every DIY musician has a story about being overwhelmed, frustrated, and deflated when promoting their music. As a musician friend once said, it feels like “drowning."

Music Marketing Plans For Indie Musicians

Hello MAB Jen and Gav,

Making the contacts is fairly easy, especially for me as I live in a mostly rural county.  There are a lot of guitar and banjo pickers and fiddle players around, a lot of them enjoy jamming with other players, and getting to know each other.  I started out doing some casual jamming and getting to know a lot of these local players who had regular day jobs, and some had weekend gigs.  I mentioned that I did some amateur song writing and played a few of my songs for some of them, eventually we did some collaborations that have been played at their gigs.  Encouragement in person is as important face to face with a local musician/artist, as it is with an online lyricist/songwriter, as well as an honest critique.  The goal is to develop an honest, trusting, give and take relationship whether in person or online.

Gav and Jen, It looks like you both are already working on making those contacts, keep at it no matter how daunting it may seem.  I don't spend every free moment trying to develop contacts, but when the opportunity presents itself, I am not shy about taking time to sit down and talk to a perspective artist, musician, or songwriter, getting to know them and their asperations, at worst I've made a friend, at best I've made a business relationship and a friend.

FYI, before I sat down to write this reply, I had a short talk with one of my picking buddies, he has agreed to sit in next week with me to see if we can work out a banjo track for Carroll Kiphens "She's A Loaded Gun".  I'm not sure how it will sound, but he is willing help me figure it out.

Good luck and best wishes,

Speak soon 

Hey folks, thank you for responding to this thread. If you don't know how I like to do things, I like to get one on one as much as possible, and discuss things I might have either done, or know other people who have done them, and share experiences, and like you to share experiences with me/us. That way we can all learn about and help each other along the way. 
The problem I have with so much of social media is the impersonal way it has become. I like to actually become "FRIENDS", and so I try to talk to you like I would actual friends. That's why I'm thankful for this site and Songwriter 101.

So I usually read what you all say, and then address it as we go. It also helps keep things on topic. So feel free to explain what goes on with you, what challenges you have and if I have any thoughts, I'll put them out there. I don't know it all, but have gone through quite a bit a lot of people don't get to experience, especially when there might be distance, age, family responsibilities, jobs, etc. (you know, LIFE) gets in the way. Maybe together we can find a little advantage here and there. Is usually pretty fun and informative.

Jenny,

There are people who do things completely online, and I do understand that. You have to do what you can do, and take advantage of everything you can. In my experience and opinion, it is sort of only doing HALF of what we have to do now, just because there are SO MANY people on the Internet. Every hour around 100,000 songs are uploaded, so that gets to be quite a crowded field. But again, you have to approach it however you can and the fact you have over 3000 followers on social media is nothing to sneeze at. 

So doing special things for your followers, possibly a video series of you performing some songs live, or talking to your followers. Just sort of treat them like friends as well. If there is any way you yourself can get out and perform, try to do that. Again, just puts a real face on things.

As to the "finding your direction" again, today, it is easier in that people don't always follow distinctive formats. That is mostly for radio, venues, etc. But if you are all over the place, you can make that your advantage. And almost every artist has multiple projects going on. Here, EVERY MUSICIAN, is involved with between 6-10 different bands, projects, writing for themselves, writing for others, songs they pitch, songs they keep, it is pretty normal to have a wealth of material. Again, modern recording and video techniques allow everyone to be in the game. I would just suggest to always make what you put "out there" represent you as best it can. 

On finding your "direction", man, you would have never FOUND another more diverse person. I grew up playing music of the 70's and early 80's rock world. Eagles, Beatles, Doobie Brothers, Foriegner, Boston, Styxx, theater rock, etc. Later that would morph into original music in the vein of "Journey/Bon Jovi" As that form of music changed in the late 80's, I changed my format and moved into country, moving to Nashville. My biggest influences were Ray Charles and the Eagles, so my types of music ranged from Country, blues, soul (Motown type) rock, and even comedy. And I was doing all that, when I first moved and recorded, leading one record company executive said, "You've got to pick one, you can't do everything." 

So over the years I've tried to conform and keep it in a pocket, but never really did. One of the reasons I never got a full record deal (several development deals) was that I just couldn't do one thing. A lot of times, too country for blues, too bluesy for country. My music now is called "In you face country soul" and blends all of those forms. Soulful vocals, country lyrics, rock edged musical grooves, with often tongue and cheek lyrical content. Now I mostly write songs for OTHER people to teach the process, so I write in mostly every style you can imagine. Last year I had cuts on artists, one that was a jazz artist, one was a "Cowboy-Country-Western" award winner. And what is really odd is that half the artists on American Country radio now, are doing things that sounded very much like I was doing 25 years ago. Sometimes you are ahead of your times. 

You just develop skills in a lot of different directions. If you are trying to find a market place for yourself, you need to make sure you know your genre so your audience can describe and follow you. As a "writer" you can do whatever you want.

Posted by: John Evans

Very interesting thread and some great stories of how some of you got to where you are today. We (meaning Evans and Stokes) need to be more engaging on social media, but to Jen's point it is a bit difficult to be motivated to do it every day. Also you have to be very careful about what you post. Most of our ES music is Christian themed so we need to keep that in mind with every post or comment we make on social media.

The reality of making and sharing music to me is that writing the song is actually the easy part. Yes some songs are written quickly and some are not. But even the songs that take a long time to write don't seem to be a chore in that it's fun, it's what you want to do, it's rewarding when its complete, etc. Since we do everything in ES, when a song is complete we have to mix, master, design cover art, sometimes make a video, publish, promote, promote, promote, promote, promote........... My Lord the amount of work to be done after the song or album is complete is a lot. It's the promoting, engaging with people on social media regularly, offering stuff from time to time, sharing similar content, etc. where we fall short. I don't think it's because we can't do it or don't know how to, it's just more of a daily chore. I have a full time and very demanding job and I travel for work quite a bit. I'm also married with three children. My spare time is limited so I like to spend it making the music. Does that make sense?

At the end of the day, for me it's about creating something unique, sharing it with as many people as possible, and also leaving something behind that will stand the test of time. If we make some money doing it, then that's great. But if we don't, that won't stop me.

I've bee playing guitar for 30 years. For 27 of those years I never wrote or recorded anything. Three years ago I downloaded Audacity for free and bought a $30 usb cable to plug my guitar into my PC. I composed a few songs and then joined the 101 forum. Pretty quickly Jenny and I connected. We seem to be like minded. We share the same warped sense of humor and musical tastes (which are very wide ranging. Just because our music is Rock and Metal...trust me what I listen to regularly is all over the place). The rest is history I guess. Jen and I continue work on our third album and I couldn't be happier with the progress.

I would like to make a country record at some point but I don't think Jen will go for it ?  Maybe y'all can coax her into doing it. ? 

Hello John, very nice to hear from you. I just clicked on your Facebook friend request. I hope all that comes together. I seem to have several hundred people on my "friends" list, that I don't know, never friended in the first place, but see to be on my list somehow. I apparently am very big with dead people. Jimi Hendrix, Jim Morrison, and Elvis all seem to be big pals of mine. Who knew? If you view some of my posts on that, there are several videos from a songwriting/teaching perspective that you might find interesting. 

All of this is very inexact. My biggest deal is getting people to see the benefits of working together, regardless if they are in the same room, face to face or not.What you and Jenny seem to have going on, would seem to be one of the primary reasons for people to bond together throughout social media. I salute you and glad it's working well. I'm reminded of stories I've heard and read, a couple actually told to me from Bernie Taupin, about the way he and Elton John always wrote. They were almost never in the same room together, even in the early days of their writing relationship. They might be in the same house, but were in different rooms and Bernie would have more or less complete lyrics and Elton would be having more or less complete musical arrangements. 

As they progressed, and lived in different areas, sometimes different countries, Bernie would send Elton large manila envelopes of lyrics and Elton would do the same with cassettes of his music. I think it was a pretty solid pairing. 
I do  understand your comments on feeling overwhelmed. We sure all do. I am especially overwhelmed when it comes to social media, when I can't find files, songs, writings, videos, etc. that I'm looking for and get totally flustered at pulling things up. My girlfriend, partner, significant other, Tina, is great at that stuff so helps keep me in bounds a lot, but if it wasn't for her, I would have given up long ago. 

A big problem with all of it, is that technology goes so fast, we are always playing catch up and in many ways it is an impossible task. So we have to do what we can. The same as you are talking about limiting factors with you and Jenny, time, family and distance that keeps you from being able to do as much as you might like. Even those who seem to do everything, also have their own gig down pat, still have trouble doing it all. This is why some of the modern artists have to be young because they spend hours a day doing just social media. 

In my thought process, that is part of the reasons writers who are not artists might find an avenue. In the situation that Gavin talks about, meeting a local/regional band, who don't have a great amount of original music, it might provide some ins for him to assist them in writing, so that he can be involved in their careers on the ground floor.

And that actually would be my overall purpose to be here or anywhere. I try to facilitate people to build relationships, no matter how it happens. It's very good to see many people here, working together and pushing each other. Having really good songs written and being put out there, online, on stage, getting pitched, cut, would be one of the goals for this and all threads. 

Thank you for participating.

Funny you mention "Copperhead Road." Steve Earle is a legend in Nashville and that is one of his best. One of my best friends and my mentor, Jimbeau Hinson, wrote HILLBILLY HIGHWAY, with Steve and was actually partially responsible for getting Steve his initial record deal with MCA. That was one of his first breakout hits. Many people approach Jimbeau thanking him because that song got them into country music. 

That swampy, bluesy sound is very prevalent now in modern country music, and people like Chris Stapleton, Zac Brown, and Little Big Town have some of those elements in their music. Copperhead road is a big influence on them, so you might think of breaking that down and finding some ways to work that into your own music. Find something you like and emulate it. Can spread your writing abilities and yield some pretty interesting results. Try that one on Jenny Dee Babe. 

lol

Is that a challenge?  ?