Incidentally, My name is Marc-Alan Barnette, and most people just use my initianls, "MAB" for short. Rhymes with "CAB". "MABBO" is what some people call me from time to time and the name I use here. Just so you know you are talking to a friend, not some disembodied spirit.

MAB

@mabbo

Ok, thanks. Yes I do consider which songs I got a good reaction to. But different people have liked different songs, and sometimes I like the ones no one seems to like.

I value your opinion because obviously you know what you're talking about, so I want to send a good quality one. 

I have a tendency to like the ones I just finished, but I realize they might not be better than some of the older ones. 

Q, "What are the greatest songs ever written?"
A: (Songwriter) "THE LONG AND WINDING ROAD, YESTERDAY, and THE ONE I JUST WROTE TODAY!!!!

https://video.search.yahoo.com/search/video?fr=mcafee&p=You+tube+Tables+and+Chairs+MArc-Alan+Barnette#id=1&vid=dda8af40741357ec126de54def4b97e0&action=click

@mabbo

Great country song, a lot of truth in it. I have often felt like I was playing for tables and chairs. And it's true we lay our souls bare, and we can't help doing it, it's just our nature.

Thank you. It does seem to connect. But oddly enough not just with musicians. I've had a lot of salesmen, real estate people, teachers, truck drivers, and other fields where it seems thankless, talk to me about the effect that one has on them. Strange to happen as it was a teaching lesson with another writer who I just wanted to quit expecting a lot of riches out of the music business. Wrote it in 20 minutes and forgot it for 5 years until I played it on a songwriters workshop I was teaching in Idaho, Started playing it and it has always gotten positive reaction. 
The point is that it is nice to have songs people identify you with and if you are looking for something to send in for me to listen to, think of things that represent you well as an introduction to your music and your personality. 

MAB

@mabbo

I happen to have this video from just before the lockdown. I think I like this song -- it's simple, and maybe people can relate to it. I had someone singing harmony with me in this video, but I am usually solo, especially now. 

Well, it sounds fine melodically and the structure. Like all things recorded in rooms with a lot of echo, it's very hard to dicern the lyrics, and when you have an unbalanced song with a guitar or two, it's very difficult to understand, so I can't really comment on that. But the flow of the song works well, the verse and chorus patterns are definitive and do lift up the melody of the song.  It would be fairly easy for a group "sing along" for people to find parts and sing along on the choruses. A soothing folk type song, the running time is right, 3:38. Reminds me of singers like Judy Collins or Joan Baez, who were prominate in the late 60's and early 70's. 

As I mentioned, I have never been to the KERRVILLE FOLK FESTIVAL in Texas, but have played with and heard many people who have been there, and some have won the song awards they have. This sounds very similar to what many of the people who go there do. There is a contest I believe to play the festival and people from all over submit for acceptance. Most festivals have a "new writers or applicant" section. Usually a submmission fee, but if it got you on a good stage and exposed you to many new people, it might be worth it. At Kerrville, and most festivals, I imagine, there are guitar pulls, song circles,  and chances to interact with other writers and share songs. I would suggest if you have a decent recording of this, it might not be a bad idea to check that out as well as any festivals in your area. Doesn't hurt to submit a few things. If nothing else, would get you to analyze your songs. 

Again, as we've said over and over here, Covid has clamped down on everything and I am not sure of when that is going to change, in fact, I expect there to be more and longer lockdowns. So a lot is going to have to be viral. I'd just suggest to try and make sure your lyrics are featured prominately in anything you do whether live streaming or in recordings. 
A lot of singers, particularly if they are not used to singing live, tend to forget about ennunciation, because they hear it all in their heads, so they don't concentrate quite on it. Most of them are not trying to be singers, but it is always a good idea to remember that people have never heard you before, so it's very important to make sure that your lyrics shine through. That is also hard in live recordings, particularly with background noise, difficult sized rooms, etc. 

But overall the song seems to work well with your presentation. I'm sure it works well with the folk audiences, as indicated by the reaction at the end of the song. So yes, you are fine. Just need to always refine what you do.

Hope this makes sense.
MAB

Oh, didn't realize lyrics weren't clear. Usually I try so hard to pronounce clearly.

Let Me Try

I-I might never see the light

an' I might never get it right

but maybe   I can try-y.

Don't know if I can mend your heart

and give you a brand new start

but baby, let me try-y.

Give me a chance to make you happy,

give me a chance to set you free,

I only know, that I don't really know,

but I can try, please let me try.

Can't see the future, can't even guess

if I can e-end your loneliness

but maybe  I can try

I got a thing or two to say

maybe I'll get you to see it my way,

oh baby, let me try

Oh if I had a million dollars

I would bet it all on you

an' if I only ha-ad fore-ever

there's not a thing that I couldn't do.

Oh I might never win the prize,

might never see love in your eyes,

but maybe I can try-y.

Still got a lo-ong way to go,

still got a whole lot I don't know,

but baby, oh please, let me try-y.

Thanks It's not you as much as the room. Probably fairly high ceilings and wood floors lead to a lot of natural echo. Some times we almost have to over emphasize some words to get them understood, and using some dampening techniques on your guitar, particularly through the verses, might help it be a little more understood. Without microphones, it can get muddy quickly.  All goes back to the things we hear in our heads, versus what our audience hears. Sometimes when you are there, you hear it fine, and then when you hear it recorded on a phone with limited speakers, etc. it will sound very different. I ennunciate with the best of them, acting trainging will do that for you, but even I can't understand myself on some camera phone videos.

Reading your lyrics I see a lot of things people usually say. I get the story but you are TELLING me and NOT SHOWING ME. I tend to like more realistic, tangible images in songs, because it enables me to see the story in my mind's eye. It's sort of EMOTION, VS. VISUAL FURNITURE and also portraying that visuals in a way that totally describes the situations. Touch, taste, feel, smells, sight, hearing, all are what we experience daily. When you use those, as you did in one line, "A MILLION DOLLARS" the listener can visualize that. 

The rest are mostly emotional and it's very difficult to present an emotion in a different light. Also, many of the rhymes are very predictable, "light, Right" "Heart, Start," "say, way" are all fairly well worn territory. The "Guess and Loneliness" are nice difference, but most of the rest tend to fall in the old "TRUE AND BLUE" "EYES AND REALIZE" sort of vernacular, that is used a lot. 

I read an interview with Oscar Hammerstein done in the 60',  where he talked about when he, Richard Rogers and Lorenz Heart got started, publishers complained about the "Moon and June" and "Eye's and Prize" sort of rhymes. And that was in the 40's. It hasn't gotten much better in all those years since.

My personal suggestions to others as well as what I try to do in my own writing is always do my best to go deeper, and try to find any different rhymes I can. I also suggest they try to make them converstational. If you can read lyrics aloud without it sounding predictable, forced or silly, then it's going to come off more realistic. And today, realism is extroidinarily important as audiences have more and more options to listen to in music. So in order to lift our songs up, it's important to always look for more and more creative ways to say the same thing, differently. 

As always, genres are going to have different guidelines and most people are not that involved in lyrical content. "worked before and so why not do it again?" But again, when it comes to critiques and more of the business/performer side of the music game, most have their own songs so are not really going to talk about too much. Part of the reason you get more "Good jobs" "Keep doing what you're doing..." things. 

I'd say overall you have a nice song. Sort of like the type of date your mother would set you up on. "He's very nice...." Nothing wrong with that. But I'd suggest in all your writing, to attempt to rachet up some details in your lyrics, which might set them apart from others. I'd also find some current artists, possibly those local or regional folk artists, you might find interesting and break down some of their lyrics. If I might suggest someone from the country market, you might look at Kacey Musgraves,who is very popular in country but also has many things that have folk leanings as well. I'd pay attention to the details, the set up of the story and follow through. Might not be your cup of tea, but you might find some things in other artist's writing you might like to look at. She is also one of the names that pop up in songwriting circles as someone who has a good command of what she's doing.

MAB

@mabbo

Ok thanks. Well this is one of my simpler songs. I have lots that might be more unusual, and I very often use imagery. But I can't ever predict what someone would like, so since I happened to notice I had this video I sent it. Choosing one song for the open mics where you only get one song is hard, for that reason. People will think that one song is typical of all your others, which might not be true. Anyway, thank you for generously spending the time to review.

Polly,

It's what I do. As I've said, most songs and writers are not bad, not nessasarily good, just average. It's hard to write songs that stand out, to find a different pathway for the song that is simply not a retread of others. It's hard to direct the "movie" in your head, to find the twist, to have people say "Wow! I never thought of it like that before" or "You are writing my life!" and having an impact on them. It's easier just to write down some words that rhyme or that hit us at a certain time of life and put emotions down. There are only a few emotions, love, hate, jealosy, loss, happiness, etc. and a few senses, and with hundreds of years of songwriting, always very very hard to find how to say something a new way.

And with more and more people doing this, it gets harder all the time. Not much new under the sun. And since most of us write for ourselves, therapy, etc. That is fine. If we like what we are doing, who cares what we do? 
But once we start trying to "expand our audience" to "rise in acceptance" "get better gigs", run in better and higher level of circles, and we put ourselves into competition, our abilities have to rise. Our songs have to reach larger audiences.

I was on a songwriters show last night. I do it a few times a month, last night was a favor to the host, who had someone cancel. I'm usually the "feature" who are people who have had hits, cuts, deals, etc, kind of the "pro" to show how it's done. LOL! Or, more times than not, how it's NOT done. 

I always try to get in a little early to hear the other writers, two rounds before me (three writers at a time), and three after, including an open mic with about 5-10 people on it. I rarely stay for those. Last night were a couple of people I knew, and SEVERAL that I didn't know, newcomers to Nashville. As it just so happened last night, a friend of mine showed up from out of town to do some recording, and so he was put into a round in front of me, so there were now six rounds of three. I sat through about four. Each round had three songs each. So essentially 18 people doing 54 songs. Out of those, I could probably only tell you about two songs that stood out at all. And those were from my friend, and two of those are songs I've known for years. The rest, you'd be hard pressed to remember while they were being played. My friend won an Emmy this year for music for a televison show, so he has the craft down pretty well, but even one of his songs was forgettable. 

So it's very hard to stand out, even among people that "supposedly" know what they are doing. But that is pretty normal, I'm sure that is what you are experiencing too. The reason that it is so hard is because there are so many people doing it, and mostly doing it badly. 
What that means is that all of us who are trying to increase our viability by increasing our visability, have to work a little harder. 

At any rate, again, whatever you do, good luck. I hope you find what you are looking for and continue to work toward your goals.

MAB

I understand that there is too much competition. I also understand that most songwriters who think they are special really are not. (I have heard many non-special songs, after being at hundreds of open mics, where I listen politely to everyone.) But having heard only one of my songs, I don't think you can assume I don't have any that stand out. Maybe not for you, and maybe not the one I sent you. But there definitely are some people who resonate with my songs.

I listened to one by Musgraves and that is definitely NOT what I am striving for. Of course I listen to singers and songwriters I like, and try to learn from them.

As for having interesting rhymes -- some of the very best-loved songs have simple rhymes. Think of Yesterday, for example. The rhymes are simple, the words are simple, there is no special imagery or any of what you mentioned.  I certainly do have songs with plenty of imagery and differentness, that I enjoyed writing. But I think simplicity is also good, and sometimes it's appreciated more.

I very definitely feel that I have something to say, and I don't think all my messages are the same old thing. Even the one I sent you had a slightly different slant on romance, I think. 

Anyway, I'll take what I can get and your saying my song is "nice" but not special, is better than hearing it's bad. I sometimes am told that my songs are pleasant and relaxing, and I guess they are hearing it as dentist office music, which I hate. But I am also often told that my songs are beautiful, so maybe it mostly depends on what you like. 

And sometimes my lyrics are appreciated. I don't write clever lyrics, because I don't usually like cleverness in songs. But some of my lyrics are interesting, I think. I have a lot to say, and I think it's different from what the other songwriters I know are saying.

Polly,

I do understand your sentaments, and that is the reason I gave you the parameters on how I look at music. I cannot say anything about your other songs, you didn't send those. I just go upon what you send. Those are simply my opinions, and are worth what you pay for them. I'd still suggest that you find some songwriters groups, think about co-writing, possibly find some festivals, and get around as many other songwriters as you can. 

I too always think in terms of simple. I just tend to think more in literal terms and explain emotions through the literal interpretations. There is no right or wrong way. I do suggest that you understand that it is not 1967 any more which is when Yesterday came out. It now is far harder to get and keep people's attention, so many of the former guidelines and rules don't apply any more. I'm a Beatles fan to but neither I, nor Paul McCartney would approach music the same way today that it was in that era. 

At any rate, I think I've given you some suggestions you can look at, or stick with your own expriences and if it is working for you, that is the direction you should continue on. All music, any form of art is a lifetime journey, and we have to understand starting out that some times we get where we get, and that is sort of how it is. 

I wish you well and good luck in your journery.

MAB

Well no, what I am doing is obviously NOT working, which is why I posted here. On the other hand, there is no guarantee I would agree with all the advise I get. Although I do appreciate that you gave it.

There is a problem with  only hearing one song. I chose to send a very simple one, because some people seemed to like it, and I happened to have the video. But it is not representative of my songs in general. 

I don't think my problem is not knowing how to write songs -- my problem is how to get heard. And you have given me good advice about that. I HAVE really tried to connect with other songwriters, and I know a lot of them where I live. But it hasn't helped much, maybe partly because the pandemic came along. 

As for songwriting being different now than in the 1960s -- I think that's a matter of opinion. My favorite Beatles song is "Let it Be," which is extremely simple, with no cleverness or unusual rhymes. It's a great song because it was written well and performed well. Nothing fancy, there really is not a need for fanciness, in my opinion. Similar for Blowin' in the Wind. A song that simple could come along right now and, in my opinion, could be a hit -- but only if the right person heard it at the right time and place. There are plenty more examples of great simple songs that will never go out of style.

But after saying all that -- I really do have songs that are not simple. They might be on unusual subjects, have unpredictable chords and melodies, and have lots of specifics and imagery. You couldn't hear any of that from the one song I sent.

One of the biggest obstacles is trying to get honest song critiques. At forums like this we're lucky to get a couple of "nice jobs." At the open mics I hear things like "awesome," "great," "love it." All of which mean nothing at all, because whoever said it probably wasn't even listening.

The best compliment I ever get is "Did you write that?" Whenever someone asks me that, I know they couldn't tell if it was a home-made song or a "real" song. And that does happen occasionally. 

And I try to be helpful to the other local songwriters. If I don't like a song, I DON'T say "awesome!" I don't say anything. And if I a think a song is special, I tell them so, and I try to explain why.

I do sometimes hear songs at the open mics that are as good as professional songs (along with many that are not). And I hear songs that could be professional if worked on a little, and if they had a band and backup singers.

As with everything, it's supply and demand. Even though really good songs may be rare, they still have to compete with the avalanches of mediocre songs, in order to be heard.

Polly,

These kinds of conversations go on all the time. I've defended the Beatles many times, but it really doesn't matter. I actually believe that the "era of the song" is over, and given way to the "era of celebrity." Again, songs are no longer of very much importance at all to the general listening public, which is one of the problems we all have in getting and keeping attention. The listeners of songs, are now thinning out, part of the "everyone can do it" and "everything is relative" now. I believe it is also why you see the major writers, like Dylan, selling their catelogues, because that is the last of the money to be gleaned out of them. (Dylan sold his song catelogue a couple of weeks ago for around $300 million. 

I was told around 20 years ago that the final money being in songs would be the last of the iconic writers selling them off and as I have seen the actual money and marketplace virtually ending, I tend to agree with that. So we are all in the situation that everyone is a writer now and there really are no great songs anymore. There are just varying degrees of what people respond to. The "getting heard" is the same problem that everyone has and everyone has the same desire to be heard. Therein lies the problem.

I would say again that I gave you my opinion on the song you posted. If you post more I'll try to check out what you do. I, like you, don't really post on that many songs because that is actually what I do for a job, so I don't get too much involved unless I am asked about specific things. But I will keep an eye out for things you post. Maybe you'll have another song you would want people to listen to more, that you feel better represents you. 

If you have people resonating with your music, that is the goal. If you get positive comments, build on that. Always continue to find your audience, and if you want to look at some of the things I suggested, along with suggestions you get from others, you have a great deal of information you can go from. I also have a web site that you might find some videos or blogs on that relate to music and modern audiences, the industry that you might find. There are other songwriter groups, a LOT on FACEBOOK and social media that you can post your songs, and reach out to other people. It is out there. The Internet does give everyone a soapbox to go from. Just keep in mind that now everyone has their own songs, that's just part of the new era we are all in.

Good luck and take care.
MAB