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Robbi
(@robbi)
Sparkly Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 79
 

Tony,
wear a mask. Masks save lives! If you don't, you'll really have to start praying. Where I live we have the virus more or less under control. We've reopened, but life is different. It will probably never ever be the same again. The sooner you accept that the better. Once America unites again I think you'll then get things under control. Stay safe!


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JAPOV
(@japov)
Noble Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 1154
Topic starter  

I'm afraid America only has 4 more years....

 

https://www.soundclick.com/artist/default.cfm?bandid=1449856


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Polly
(@polly)
A Night To ReMember
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 204
 

It seems very likely to me, from what I know so far, that the virus was genetically modified in, and escaped from, the Wuhan lab. They had been involved in "gain of function" research for a few years -- modifying bat coronaviruses so they can infect humans. This research was also going on in the US -- it had been banned for a couple of years because lab accidents are inevitable, and there was concern that it could cause a pandemic.

Fauci, so loved and respected by the Democrats, promoted this. I would not be surprised if he were involved in the Wuhan research.

I think it was an accident, although it's kind of understandable that some believe it was a conspiracy. Certain factions are benefitting tremendously from it. 

Some of the worst losers are musicians and bar owners. I live in NY State and a law was past preventing ticketed music shows in bars.

I agree with the OP that the lockdowns have been a crazy over-reaction. People who are not at risk should have been allowed to live normally. But I think "they" love having us completely under their control. Freedom in this country is dead.

 

 


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Robbi
(@robbi)
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Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 79
 

Hey Polly,

it sounds like you’re watching Fox News too often. Your comment about Dr. Fauci is very disrespectful because you can’t prove it but that seems to be becoming more popular these days in America.

You claim that people who are not at risk should be allowed to live normally. Tell me please, who is not at risk? You? It will take a long, long time until we can live the way we used to, maybe never again.

If I had the virus without knowing it and if I would infect a family member, friend or neighbor and that person would die because I infected him or her, that would bother me for the rest of my life. Many Americans apparently think differently. And that’s the reason why another 130.000 Americans will die by December 1st. Who is to blame? China, Dr. Fauci, the Democrats, etc. Who knows. But surely those many Americans who don’t wear masks.

Stay safe …


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Polly
(@polly)
A Night To ReMember
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 204
 
Posted by: @robbi

Hey Polly,

it sounds like you’re watching Fox News too often. Your comment about Dr. Fauci is very disrespectful because you can’t prove it but that seems to be becoming more popular these days in America.

You claim that people who are not at risk should be allowed to live normally. Tell me please, who is not at risk? You? It will take a long, long time until we can live the way we used to, maybe never again.

If I had the virus without knowing it and if I would infect a family member, friend or neighbor and that person would die because I infected him or her, that would bother me for the rest of my life. Many Americans apparently think differently. And that’s the reason why another 130.000 Americans will die by December 1st. Who is to blame? China, Dr. Fauci, the Democrats, etc. Who knows. But surely those many Americans who don’t wear masks.

Stay safe …

I NEVER watch Fox news. I don't even have a TV. It sounds like you have been watching CNN too often. 

I get my ideas from reading varied sources, and I make sure not to soak up a lot of biased information.

What I said about Fauci is true. It has nothing to do with respect or disrespect. You are being very gullible if you trust someone just because of their position and credentials. Fauci, and of course others, has been involved in gain of function research and wanted it to continue, in spite of the well-known grave dangers.


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Gavin
(@gavin)
Prominent Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 999
 

Actually, I think Polly is right. There was research going on aimed at understanding more about how coronaviruses jump from animals to humans. Dr. Fauci did support this research, if I remember correctly. Obviously, this is a worthy aim, but not without risks. There is no evidence that I'm aware of that the current virus escaped from a lab. I think it's unlikely, but it's not completely crazy to entertain the possibility.

Robert, accusing somebody of watching Fox News? I'm going to have to refer you to the moderator LOL.

I may or may not be an enigma
http://mysteriousbeings.com


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Polly
(@polly)
A Night To ReMember
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 204
 
Posted by: @gavin

Actually, I think Polly is right. There was research going on aimed at understanding more about how coronaviruses jump from animals to humans. Dr. Fauci did support this research, if I remember correctly. Obviously, this is a worthy aim, but not without risks. There is no evidence that I'm aware of that the current virus escaped from a lab. I think it's unlikely, but it's not completely crazy to entertain the possibility.

Robert, accusing somebody of watching Fox News? I'm going to have to refer you to the moderator LOL.

I have been accused of being a Republican before, just because I am obviously not a Democrat. Some people think there are only two boxes and everyone must fit into one or the other.

There are very good reasons to suspect the pandemic started from a lab accident in Wuhan. At the beginning, several experts stated that it absolutely must be a natural virus. But I would question their motives for saying that, since they had no way to be certain. Some scientists are afraid their research will be banned, so they want everyone to think it's perfectly safe.

Since then, some other experts have said it is very likely that the virus was modified so it can infect humans.

It would be quite a coincidence if the virus were natural. For one thing, the wildlife market theory now seems unlikely. And the Wuhan lab was doing exactly the kind of research that would give a bat coronavirus the ability to infect humans. Exactly the kind of research that had been banned for several years in the US because it could cause a pandemic.

The Chinese government doesn't want us to know. Fauci doesn't want us to know. And now that social media is censored, it's very hard for us to access the "dangerous misinformation" that would help us find out.

 

This post was modified 4 years ago by Polly

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Gavin
(@gavin)
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Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 999
 

@polly

I have to disagree with just about all of that, Polly 🙂 There are lots of viruses that are capable of jumping to humans from animals without any intervention, either sinister or incompetent. It has happened before. That's the reason for the research. Folks like Bill Gates have been warning about this and urging preparedness for many years, only to be accused now of being behind the whole thing.

These days, you can find an expert to fit whatever view you support. To be fair, in this case, I think there are some genuine experts that support your argument, as well as many that don't.

I don't think social media censorship (a topic for a whole different argument) should get in the way of real news. Nobody should get their news from social media.

I may or may not be an enigma
http://mysteriousbeings.com


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Polly
(@polly)
A Night To ReMember
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 204
 
Posted by: @gavin

@polly

I have to disagree with just about all of that, Polly 🙂 There are lots of viruses that are capable of jumping to humans from animals without any intervention, either sinister or incompetent. It has happened before. That's the reason for the research. Folks like Bill Gates have been warning about this and urging preparedness for many years, only to be accused now of being behind the whole thing.

These days, you can find an expert to fit whatever view you support. To be fair, in this case, I think there are some genuine experts that support your argument, as well as many that don't.

I don't think social media censorship (a topic for a whole different argument) should get in the way of real news. Nobody should get their news from social media.

If you don't get news from social media, where do you get it? CNN and the New York Times? Fox? Now they are all biased and practically worthless as sources of information.

I should not have said "social media," because I am not just talking about Facebook, Twitter and Youtube. Google screens out "dangerous misinformation" for us also. So just about everything is censored.

There is some alternative information still available, but it tends to be the nuttiest conspiracy theory websites. Genuine sane factual reporters have become very hard to find.

I am able to get financial information I more or less trust, from Matt Taibbi, and from the Martens (wallstreetonparade). But it has become nearly impossible to find anyone who reports health information sanely and fairly.

 


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Polly
(@polly)
A Night To ReMember
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 204
 

And -- it is a fact that the Wuhan virology lab was modifying bat coronaviruses so they can infect humans. It is a fact that it is impossible to prevent accidents from occurring in this kind of lab. It is a fact that accidents have occurred, and that this kind of research was banned for a while, because it could cause a pandemic. 

Of course the Wuhan lab director denied that her lab could have caused the pandemic. What do you expect? And virologists don't want their research to be banned, so of course they will deny the virus was modified.

No, bat coronaviruses don't routinely jump from other animals to humans. How often has this happened? Never. And just by chance, I guess, the pandemic started in Wuhan. 

We have no reason to expect we will be told the truth. Or that the truth will ever be found out. 

 


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Gavin
(@gavin)
Prominent Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 999
 

@polly

Yes, it's difficult to know for sure, but bats are the prime suspect for SARS. Civets are another possible source, maybe as an intermediary. I really am not an expert, just curious.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-01096-z

I don't buy into the whole, "Google is biased" complaint because of its source, which is the least reliable of all, and tends to equate not agrreing with him as bias. 🙂

It's possible to find unbiased news from sources such as Reuters, AP, BBC and, for medial stuff, Stat. "Unbiased" is relative, of course, everyone has a bias, often revealed in what they choose to report, but these sources are factual and reliable for the most part.

I may or may not be an enigma
http://mysteriousbeings.com


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Polly
(@polly)
A Night To ReMember
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 204
 
Posted by: @gavin

@polly

Yes, it's difficult to know for sure, but bats are the prime suspect for SARS. Civets are another possible source, maybe as an intermediary. I really am not an expert, just curious.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-01096-z

I don't buy into the whole, "Google is biased" complaint because of its source, which is the least reliable of all, and tends to equate not agrreing with him as bias. 🙂

It's possible to find unbiased news from sources such as Reuters, AP, BBC and, for medial stuff, Stat. "Unbiased" is relative, of course, everyone has a bias, often revealed in what they choose to report, but these sources are factual and reliable for the most part.

We know that COVID 19 came from bats. But we also know that bat coronaviruses were modified in labs to be able to infect humans.

I did not say google is biased. I said it censors and screens the information it finds. This is a fact. We are prevented from seeing "dangerous misinformation."

I realize that everyone is biased. I am talking about our medical authorities, who want to make sure we believe them and do not hear alternate views. This is especially true about the new vaccines.

 


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Init4theMusic
(@init4themusic)
Active Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 12
 

"On 15 July, she emailed Science answers to a series of written questions about the virus’ origin and the research at her institute. In them, Shi hit back at speculation that the virus leaked from WIV. She and her colleagues discovered the virus in late 2019, she says, in samples from patients who had a pneumonia of unknown origin. “Before that, we had never been in contact with or studied this virus, nor did we know of its existence,” Shi wrote."

Source - https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/07/trump-owes-us-apology-chinese-scientist-center-covid-19-origin-theories-speaks-out

 

" All available evidence to date suggests that the virus has a natural animal origin and is not a
manipulated or constructed virus. Many researchers have been able to look at the genomic features of SARS-CoV-2
and have found that evidence does not support that SARS-CoV-2 is a laboratory construct. If it were a constructed
virus, its genomic sequence would show a mix of known elements. This is not the case."

Source - https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200423-sitrep-94-covid-19.pdf?sfvrsn=b8304bf0_4

 

"There is "absolutely zero evidence that it escaped from a lab," he added. In May, the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, Anthony Fauci, told National Geographic that he discounted the idea that the virus had accidentally escaped from a lab."

Source - https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/inside-wuhan-lab-center-coronavirus-storm-n1236254

 

"The majority of virologists and infectious disease experts say the new virus is most likely to have evolved naturally."

Source - https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-china-origins-expl/explainer-what-we-know-about-the-origins-of-the-coronavirus-pandemic-idUSKBN23H1HQ

 

"Moreover, retrospective studies indicate the virus was silently circulating abroad before Wuhan doctors first detected it, including in France by November 16 and in Italy by December 18. Doctors who re-tested samples from respiratory patients in France speculate that “the virus dispersed sporadically after the first case in mid-November,” accelerated during year-end holiday events, and took off in epidemic proportions after a late February religious gathering. A similar pattern of slow spread with limited detection, followed by acceleration and explosion, played out in the U.S. and other countries."

Source - https://www.brookings.edu/blog/order-from-chaos/2020/08/19/lets-end-the-covid-19-blame-game-reconsidering-chinas-role-in-the-pandemic/

 

"COVID-19 is caused by a coronavirus called SARS-CoV-2. Coronaviruses are a large family of viruses that are common in people and many different species of animals, including camels, cattle, cats, and bats.  Rarely, animal coronaviruses can infect people and then spread between people. This occurred with MERS-CoV and SARS-CoV, and now with the virus that causes COVID-19. The SARS-CoV-2 virus is a betacoronavirus, like MERS-CoV and SARS-CoV. All three of these viruses have their origins in bats. The sequences from U.S. patients are similar to the one that China initially posted, suggesting a likely single, recent emergence of this virus from an animal reservoir. However, the exact source of this virus is unknown."

Source - https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cdcresponse/about-COVID-19.html

 

No disrespect intended here folks, but opinions are like assholes...everybody's got one.

But without credible sources & specifics about how you arrived at yours, it's tough to take them seriously. 

This post was modified 4 years ago 2 times by Init4theMusic

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Polly
(@polly)
A Night To ReMember
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 204
 

Yes I know that Fauci and other medical authorities deny that it could have possibly come from a lab. But there are others -- which you intentionally left out -- who think it is very possible.

And if you don't trust the opinions of a songwriter on this subject, don't read them! This is a songwriter website, and since we are human beings with other areas of expertise and interest, we sometimes post here also. Obviously if I were a medical authority I would not be posting my opinions here. Of course, if I were a medical authority my opinions would always be in line with whatever they want the public to believe at the time.

In any case, we are unlikely to find out what started the pandemic. From everything I have been able to find so far, the case is not closed and the lab accident theory is taken seriously by many.

 


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Init4theMusic
(@init4themusic)
Active Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 12
 

Nice talkin' to ya' Polly...good luck in November ? 


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