GEORGE FLOYD !!!
 
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JAPOV
(@japov)
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I am DYING to have an intelligent conversation about this without being SUFFOCATED by racist opinion!

Any takers?

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JAPOV
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Fine then...

As an FMF Corpsman/Hospital Corpsman/Psychiatric tech (trained in takedown and restraint techniques) who also happens to be the son of a retired police officer... I believe I have some insight that most people are lacking. The narrative should be going something like this;

Four police officers are called to the scene of a crime. The perpetrator is a known criminal with a history of chemical abuse, and is found sitting in his vehicle complaining of a medical problem. Two others are also in the vehicle. The perpetrator is removed from his vehicle, handcuffed, and an ambulance is called for him. While transporting the perp to a police unit to wait for the ambulance, the perp dropped to his knees and refused to enter the vehicle. Since the ambulance was in route, the officers restrained the perp in prone position on the ground, because he was handcuffed. The perp died in police custody before the ambulance arrived. Cause of death is yet to be determined.

This whole situation is so grossly politically and racially skewed that even the coroner reports are biased. The first report stated there was no evidence of strangulation or asphyxiation. The question then becomes why? Did the deceased have toenail fungus or herpes? Why is the coroner reporting lack of evidence when his job is to determine evident cause? This first report concludes that the deceased had cardiopulminary disease and high blood pressure, was under the influence of chemical intoxicants, and his death was "probably" exasperated by being restrained. Again, this is a coroners report... what does "probably" mean? What is the evidence?

This lack of evidence, of course, has led to a second coroners report which contradicts the first, proclaiming the cause of death to be "mechanical asphyxiation". Now, the question becomes, what is the evidence? Are there bruises on the body? Broken ribs? Fractured vertebra? Petechial hemorrhaging of the eyes?

Good grief people, how about a little common sense! These are trained, experienced officers surrounded by cameras. They are not EMTs or doctors, nor are they clairvoyant. Their job is to deal with criminals all day long. I know the videos look bad, but every "takedown" does! Would simply getting into the police car have saved the criminal's life? We will "probably" never know... but consider this, football players "dogpile" each other every day but no one ever dies.

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Deacon
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Hello "T", I had no idea you had such an impressive background.  I have read both published autopsy reports and they do differ somewhat, however ultimately both do list homicide while in police custody as the cause of death.  I was a police officer for 20+ years and I must say that I was quite disturbed to watch the George Floyd video, and in all those years as an officer I never used nor did I see another officer ever use that type of technique on a cuffed suspect, we were trained to know this was dangerous and could cause death, just as was a choke hold, it was totally unacceptable. 

I agree this situation is politically skewed, racially skewed, not so sure.  I believe the bigger picture here is the involvement of ANTIFA, BLM, and other factions as well as opportunist looters.  There is a sophisticated coordination between these factions which involves multiple cities in the nation which indicates big money behind it all, and seems pretty obvious to me anyhow, that this is an attempt to overthrow the Government of The United States of America.  ANTIFA has been recruiting on nearly all college and university campuses for many years, it is not surprising that many graduates have been indoctrinated to believe that capitalism and democracy are bad, yet socialism or communism are good.  It is also not surprising that these factions would subvert a peaceful protests as a vehicle to further their cause through disruption and violence.  Follow the money and we will find out who is really behind it all.  Add to it state governors and local mayors, who either by incompetents or by design, let these factions and lotters pretty much run free, we have a recipe for disaster.  JMHO.  

This post was modified 1 year ago by Deacon

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JAPOV
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 "I have read both published autopsy reports and they do differ somewhat, however ultimately both do list homicide while in police custody as the cause of death."

That's my point lol... WHAT IS THE EVIDENCE? Where did you find both autopsy reports? 

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JAPOV
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Here's a prediction;
There are going to be two more waves of rioting and the last will be the worst.

Why?
Because none of those officers will be convicted of murder. These so called "protestors" will be just as belligerently ignorant then as now because the media will tell them everything they want to hear just to diminish Trump's presidency.

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Deacon
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I searched the web, found both there, although the Hennepin County Medical Examiners report gave cardiopulmonary arrest while being restrained by the officer, and other significant conditions, arteriosclerotic and hypertensive heart disease, fentanyl intoxication, and recent methamphetamine use as possible contributing factors.  The second autopsy report issued by Dr. Michael Baden indicates compression on the neck and back of Floyd by the officer interfered with blood flow and breathing resulting in death.  Keep in mind that Dr. Baden was the chief Medical Examiner for New York City, but is now a professional expert hired gun for anyone who can afford his opinion and testimony, kind of a Cyril Wecht wanna be.

So far as the protestors go, I believe they are pawns too stupid to realize their cause has been hijacked by upper middle class white twenty somethings lurking in the background using social media and cell phones to coordinate multiple mobs state and nationwide.  Again, JMHO. 

Music is an international language, say it with a song. deaconmusic4u@gmail.com


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JAPOV
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See what I mean? Everyone seems to be purposely ignoring the obvious... I believe Mr Floyd and his two friends were "disposing" of any drugs they had in their possession before the cops arrived. That's why he was complaining of a medical condition when they pulled him out of his car... essentially, he ODd. Now don't get me wrong, it is regrettable that he died under those circumstances, but that was all completely out of law enforcement's control. In fact, it was most likely a contributing factor to why the police had to be called in the first place. If all Mr Floyd truly did was pass a phony $20, he could have just pled ignorance and walked away... There is more to this story.

And you're right, it's the perfect storm for ANTIFA and BLM during an election year... My heart truly goes out to those cops. However tragic these circumstances are, who could honestly believe that the three of them collectively and willfully committed murder, in broad daylight, on camera, while waiting for an ambulance to arrive?

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Gavin
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I think you are right to think that there may be more to the apprehension of Floyd than is immediately available or obvious. On the other hand there may not. We don't know yet. Whatever the circumstances, there appears to be little doubt that what that policeman did was incredibly bad. I don't think that he or his colleagues willfully committed murder. What they did was to brutalize Floyd with predictable results.

I also think that there is some outside influence in the riots. The extent of it is not known yet. I think Deac is wrong in assuming that it is ANTIFA as part of a vast plot to overthrow the government. It is just as likely to be extreme right wing activists and/or white supremacists using the opportunity to work towards the same goal. In my view, it's unlikely that either of these shadowy forces plays the major part and most of the looting and rioting is been done by local opportunists on their own initiative. Most conspiracy theories about this will prove to be false, as they always do. In my little home town there has been a demonstration which consisted of about 100 kids of all races standing outside the courthouse chatting to the police. This has not stopped rumors circulating about buses of paid rioters being spotted.

I know you don't mean it that way, Deac, but it's a bit insulting to portray the protestors as dumb pawns or puppets being manipulated by others. These people have brains. They are not robots that can be manipulated in this way. That's not to say that people won't try. You can already see that in the online accounts that Facebook had to take down - white supremacist groups who had set up fake accounts posing as ANTIFA and urging protestors to bring weapons to the demonstrations. We don't know how effective such efforts have been, but I don't think they are a significant factor in persuading people to demonstrate in the first place.

ANTIFA doesn't really exist as a coherent movement. It's more of a description of people with a particular set of views. Designating it as a terrorist movement is ridiculous for that reason. This administration needs simple solutions to complex problems. There has to be a cartoon villain in a black hat, twirling his moustache in a dastardly manner. The President is not capable of thinking in more complex terms than this, and it also suits his modus operandi of stoking outrage at these targets, real or imagined. That's how he got elected and it's his plan for re-election.

JAPOV, it's wrong to speak of "so-called" protestors. Their feelings are genuine. They have had enough. The actions of the morons who are looting and rioting does not invalidate the protestors' cause, although many will try to use it to do so. It's tragic.

It's also wrong to blame the media for reporting what happens. Trump's war on the media which he has ramped up recently has dangerous consequences. There are plenty of Trump supporters in the police, and some will take his rantings as a reason to target reporters. It's already happened, though thankfully not with any serious consequences that I'm aware of.

You'll notice that I've used the words, "we don't know yet," a few times. In my opinion, the only really smart people are those who are not yet expressing an opinion because so many facts have not come out yet. A lot of people who shot their mouths off will be shown to be wrong. 

 

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JAPOV
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And even when the truth comes to light, there will still be those who deny it....

Prepare yourselves... this is just the beginning.

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Deacon
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I can imagine that there is a possibility right wing extremists/white supremacists could have a hand on what is going on.  I have to wonder though, would BLM and the African American community at large work in concert with the KKK or any other white supremacist organization to further their agenda, knowingly or otherwise?  Or would they gladly accept help from sympathetic organizations to further their cause?  

Perhaps my belief as to the cognitive brain function of the protestors is overzealous, perhaps not, it is however my opinion which is based on what I see.  I can not believe in good conscience that people who truly want to exercise their right to peaceful protests would allow violent extremists, right wing or left wing, to interfere with their right to voice their beliefs.  The looters, thieves, arsonists, and rioters, I guess, have become an accepted nuisance to these type of assemblies, kind of like fleas on a dog.

The thing is, more is coming out regarding George Floyds autopsy.  Now they say he had COVID-19.  Do we see a possible defense for the officers developing here?

Posted by: @gavin

You'll notice that I've used the words, "we don't know yet," a few times. In my opinion, the only really smart people are those who are not yet expressing an opinion because so many facts have not come out yet. A lot of people who shot their mouths off will be shown to be wrong. 

Or perhaps be shown to be right, "we don't know yet", either way I  have been wrong before.

 

This post was modified 1 year ago by Deacon

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JAPOV
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"fleas" lol... I like that. BTW, the word is "loitering"  🙂 

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Deacon
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Sorry "T", it was actually meant to be "looters", Thanks for catching that.  See, perfect example, I was wrong.  I used to tell everyone, "I'm never wrong, once I thought I was, but I was only mistaken".

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JAPOV
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I may not always be right, but I always know who to blame... 😉

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Deacon
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I gotta tell ya "T" and Gav, it is pretty obvious, I guess, I get most of news from FOX News, and my MSN news feed.  I 've tried to watch CNN (Communist News Network), CBS (Communist Broadcasting System), ABC (Atheist Broadcasting Corp.), NBC (National Bull Crap), MSNBC (More Stupid National Bull Crap), Bloomberg (The name speaks for itself -you know-the guy that thinks all it takes to be a farmer is to dig a hole, drop in a seed, cover it up, and let it grow.), but I just can't swallow the swill they all sputter.  Best wishes,

Music is an international language, say it with a song. deaconmusic4u@gmail.com


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JAPOV
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That's actually an excellent point Ron. Usually there's an acceptable competition between the news organizations that you can read between, and then discern the truth somewhere in the middle. Not any more. In fact, especially in this case, the leftist news makes a point of being as liberally contrary as it possibly can, then blames the right for being divisive... Our house is divided, and it's purely politically motivated. I miss the days when people would debate the difference between Democrats and Republicans, back when it was hard to tell because both still upheld the Constitution, and considered themselves Americans...

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